" Turtles along the way " is an infinite regression expression. The adage mentions the mythological idea of ​​the World Turtle that supports the earth on its back. This shows that the tortoise is leaning behind an even larger tortoise, which itself is part of an increasingly infinitely growing tortoise column ie , that it is " tortoise all the way down ").
The origin of this phrase is uncertain. In the form of "stones along the way", the saying came as early as 1838. References to the mythical predecessor myth, the Turtle World and its partner, the World Elephant, were made by a number of writers in the 17th and 18th centuries. This mythology is often assumed to originate in Ancient India and other Hindu beliefs.
This phrase has been used to illustrate problems such as the paradox of "unmoved mover" in cosmology, regression arguments in epistemology, and more recently, meta-learner optimizers in machine learning.
Video Turtles all the way down
History
The background in Hindu mythology
The initial variation of the maxim does not always have explicit references to unlimited regression (ie the phrase "all the way down"). They often refer to stories that feature World Elephants, World Turtles, or other similar creatures that are claimed to originate from Hindu mythology. The first known reference to Hindu sources is found in a letter by the Jesuit Emanual de Veiga (1549-1605), written in Chandagiri on September 18, 1599, in which the relevant passage reads:
Some say the land of nine angles that heaven is based. The other seven of those who differed opinions, and will do the land of elephants, supported by, the elephant, the last do not sink, on the dome of the feet that still have. QuÃÆ' |. The turtle's body stops, erected to prevent the slip responding do not know
Others argue that the earth has nine angles in which the sky is supported. Others disagree of this will have the earth supported by seven elephants, and elephants do not drown because their feet remain on the turtles. When asked who would fix the body of the turtle, so that it would not collapse, he said that he did not know.
The account of Veiga seems to have been accepted by Samuel Purchas, who has a close paraphrase in his book Purchas His Pilgrims (1613/1626), "that the Earth has nine angles, where it is borne by Heaven. Others disagree, and said that the Earth was borne by seven elephants, the elephant's feet stood on the turtle, and they were borne by what they did not know. "Buyers' accounts were again reflected by John Locke in his 1689 Treaty An Essay Concerning Human Understanding , in which Locke introduces the story as a metaphor referring to the problem of induction in philosophical debate. Locke compares a person who would say that the qualities that are in "Substance" to the Indians who say that the world is on an elephant is above a turtle, "But again pressed to know what gives the support to the vast tortoise, answer, something, he does not know what ". The story is also referenced by Henry David Thoreau, who wrote in his journal notes May 4, 1852: "Men make speeches... all over the country, but each expresses only thoughts, or wishes of mind, of the crowd No one stands in for the truth They are just bound together as always, who lean on the other and everything is nothing, because Hindoos makes the world rest on elephants, and elephants on turtles, and have nothing to put under the turtles. "
Modern shape
In the form of "stone along the way", the maxim dated at least 1838, when it was printed in an unsigned anecdote in the New York-York Mirror about a schoolboy and an elderly woman living in the forest:
"The world, marm," I said, was anxious to show the knowledge I had, "not round, but resembling a flattened orange shape, and it turned into its axis once in twenty-four hours."
"Well, I do not know anything about his axis," he replied, "but I know it does not turn around, because if it's all we will fall down, and for that round, anyone can see it is a slice square ground, standing on a rock! "
"Stand on a rock, but on what stand stands?"
"Why, in the other, to make sure!"
"But what supports the latter?"
"Lud! Boy, how foolish you are! There's a rock down there!"
The proverbial version in the form of his "tortoise" appeared in 1854 a transcript of the statement by preacher Joseph Frederick Berg addressed to Joseph Barker:
The reason why my opponent reminds me of the infidels, who are asked about what the world stands, answers, "On turtles." But on what does the turtle stand? "On the other turtle." With Mr. Barker, too, there are tortoises along the way down. (Steady tension and applause.)
Much of the 20th century attribution claims that William James is the source of that expression. James refers to the tale of elephants and tortoises several times, but tells an infinite setback story with "stones all the way" in the 1882 essay, "Rationality, Activity, and Faith":
Like an elderly woman in a story depicting the world as resting on a rock, and then explaining that the stone must be supported by another stone, and finally when pushed with the question saying it "stones along the way," he who believes this becomes a universe is radically moral must hold the moral order to rest both the absolute and the last must or on the series should "all the way down."
John R. Ross linguist also associates James with the phrase:
The following anecdotes are told of William James. [...] After a lecture on cosmology and solar structure, James was approached by an elderly woman.
"Your theory is that the sun is the center of the solar system, and the earth is a spinning ball around it having a very convincing ring to it, Mr. James, but it's wrong, I have a better theory," said the little old lady.
"And what is it, ma'am?" said James politely.
"That we live on the earth's crust behind the giant tortoise."
Not wanting to destroy this absurd little theory by bringing the mass of scientific evidence he had on his command, James decided to gently block his opponent by making him see some of his lack of position.
"If your theory is right, lady," she asked, "does this turtle stand?"
"You're a very clever man, Mr. James, and that's a very good question," replied the little old lady, "but I have the answer.This is: The first turtle stands behind the second, much bigger, turtle, which stands just below it. "
"But what is this second turtle?" said James patiently.
For this, the little old lady clustered triumphantly,
"It's no use, Mr. James - it's a turtle all the way."
Maps Turtles all the way down
In epistemology and other disciplines
Metaphors are used as examples of unlimited setback problems in epistemology to show that there is a necessary foundation for knowledge, as Johann Gottlieb Fichte wrote in 1794:
"If it does not exist (the human knowledge system depends on the absolute first principle) two cases are only possible, either there is no immediate certainty at all, and then our knowledge forms many unlimited series or series where each theorem comes from a higher , and this again from the higher, et., etc. We built our house on earth, the earth rely on elephants, elephants on turtles, turtles again - who knows what? - and so on indefinitely. , if our knowledge is based on that, we can not change it, but we also have no strong knowledge.We may have returned to certain links of our series, and have found every thing corroborated to this link but who can guarantee us that, if we go further back, we may not find it out of bounds, and should it leave it? Our assurance is only assumed, and we can never be sure going for the next day. "
David Hume refers to the story in his Dialogue About the Religion of God when he argues against God as an unmoved actor:
Therefore, how would we satisfy ourselves about the cause of the existence that you consider the Author of Nature, or, according to your Antropomorphic system, ideal world, where do you search the material? Do we not have the same reason to trace the ideal world to another ideal world, or a new intelligence principle? But if we stop, and do not go any further; why go so far? why not stop in the material world? How can we satisfy ourselves without occurring in infinitum? And, however, what satisfaction is there in infinite development? Let's remember the story of Indian philosopher and elephant. It has never been more than the current subject. If the material world rests on the same ideal world, this ideal world must rely on others; and so on, endless. That's better, therefore, never see beyond the material world today. Assuming it contains the principle of its order in itself, we really assert it as God; and the sooner we get to the Divine Presence, much better. When you step one step outside the mundane system, you just excite the curious humor that is unlikely to satisfy.
Bertrand Russell also mentioned the story in his lecture in 1927 Why I'm Not a Christian while ignoring the First Cause argument intended to be a proof of the existence of God:
If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there is something without cause, perhaps the world is God, so there is no validity in that argument. This is exactly the same as the Hindu view, that the world rests on elephants and elephants resting on the turtles; and when they say, 'What about the tortoise?' the Indian said, 'If we change the subject.'
The famous modern alus or variation
References to "tortoise all the way" have been made in a variety of modern contexts. For example, "Turtles All the Way Down" is the name of the song by country artist Sturgill Simpson who appeared on the 2014 album Metamodern Sounds in Country Music . Turtles All The Way Down is also the title of a 2017 novel by John Green about a teenage girl with obsessive compulsive disorder.
Stephen Hawking combines the proverb to the beginning of his 1988 book Brief History of Time :
A famous scientist (some say it Bertrand Russell) once gave a general lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a large collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a small old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you say to us is garbage.This world is really a flat plate supported behind a giant tortoise." Scientists give a superior smile before replying, "What is the turtle standing above?" "You are very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But all the turtles are down!"
Judge Antonin Scalia of the US Supreme Court discussed the "favorite version" of the proverb in footnotes for his plurality of opinions on Rapanos v. United States :
In our favorite version, an Eastern teacher asserts that the earth is supported behind the tiger. When asked what supports the tiger, he says the elephant is standing on an elephant; and when asked what supports the elephant, he says it is a giant tortoise. When asked, finally, what supported the giant tortoise, he was a little surprised, but quickly replied "Ah, after that the turtles are all down."
See also
References
Source of the article : Wikipedia
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